Categories
Vanilla 1.1.4 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.
JAMES NEWTON HOWARD
-
- CommentAuthorScribe
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
I remember the themes perfectly well.
But as for melody...it's the whole mood of Nolan's films that makes the concept serious rather than silly. And the score is an integral part of that mood. The unmelodic score is thus part of what makes the film seem serious rather than silly...an achievement which a score like Elfman's could certainly not claim, despite how much better it might be from a purely musical standpoint.I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
I refuse to accept that. Any competent film composer could have written a fantastic thematic score for that film. I do accept it was an artistic decision by the director to have a drone-type score instead, but to say a thematic one would have made the film silly is, I think, plain wrong. For one thing, Tim Burton's Batman doesn't seem silly. Of course a score written entirely in that vein wouldn't have worked, but the score the film did get is not the only one it could have got (and of course I think it's probably as bad a score as the film could possibly have got while not actually damaging it, but let's not go down that road again). -
- CommentAuthorThor
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
Scribe wrote
I remember the themes perfectly well.
But as for melody...it's the whole mood of Nolan's films that makes the concept serious rather than silly.
That is exactly right. It's the whole approach, from mood to characters to setting. It's permeated by realism, independent film-style, and in-your-face, oldfashioned "movie themes" don't usually mesh well with that.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
There's other music than leitmotif music. Nobody stops anyone to approach a film the way they want and Nolan's scores are certainly not drones. Being a medicre composer = non thematic music is ridiculous these days, if you also observe what people have been doing outside film music in the 20th century and the first 10 years of the 21st.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
Christodoulides wrote
There's other music than leitmotif music.
Yeah... but leitmotif music for film is usually the ones people remember.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
True, but in the case of Nolan's scores, the minimalistic motifs are pretty memorable too and practically everywhere, tv news, radio shows, ads, everywhere. People are really liking what Zimmer did for Nolan so far.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
It's lowest common denominator music. I don't want to beat on this dead horse again but besides the Joker motif (which is freakin' genius) the rest is barely passable and can be interchanged with just about any film.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2010 edited
Christodoulides wrote
There's other music than leitmotif music.
Sure, and there's other cars than Ferraris and other categories of people to have sex with than living females but that doesn't mean they're as good.
But let's make one thing clear before anyone else puts words into my mouth that I didn't say. Few of my absolute, all-time-favourite film scores are leitmotivic actually. Some of the most brilliant music - and some of the most brilliant film music - doesn't have a theme in sight. All I'm saying is that for THIS film, it could have been scored so much better than it was. Don't turn that into me saying that all film music needs to be 100-piece orchestras and sound like Star Wars because I am not saying that. -
- CommentAuthorfranz_conrad
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2010 edited
Christodoulides wrote
There's other music than leitmotif music. Nobody stops anyone to approach a film the way they want and Nolan's scores are certainly not drones. Being a medicre composer = non thematic music is ridiculous these days, if you also observe what people have been doing outside film music in the 20th century and the first 10 years of the 21st.
Leitmotif can be subtler than many directors realise. It's just an idea about how themes relate to the structure of the underlying story. It can be much much subtler than STAR WARS though. (Thankfully Desplat has been proving the case for some years now, rescuing us from inferior Thomas Newman imitations and the Remote Control abandonment of dramatic subtlety. Note: both the latter are fully on display in the first Nolan Batman film, and threaten to engulf the second at times when the Joker isn't on screen.)A butterfly thinks therefore I am -
- CommentAuthorThor
- CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
That's right. It's just a tool in traditional, narrative filmmaking. It doesn't HAVE to be neo-romantic, symphonic, Wagnerian & large and mythic.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010
franz_conrad wrote
Christodoulides wrote
There's other music than leitmotif music. Nobody stops anyone to approach a film the way they want and Nolan's scores are certainly not drones. Being a medicre composer = non thematic music is ridiculous these days, if you also observe what people have been doing outside film music in the 20th century and the first 10 years of the 21st.
Leitmotif can be subtler than many directors realise. It's just an idea about how themes relate to the structure of the underlying story. It can be much much subtler than STAR WARS though. (Thankfully Desplat has been proving the case for some years now, rescuing us from inferior Thomas Newman imitations and the Remote Control abandonment of dramatic subtlety. Note: both the latter are fully on display in the first Nolan Batman film, and threaten to engulf the second at times when the Joker isn't on screen.)
Exactly my point; the THEMES ARE THERE. Just because they're not Wagnerian and 8-bar long, that doesn't mean they're not worthy.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorMiya
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010
This is how Batman Begins should be scored!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oOpDPd15mULabels are for cans, not people. - Anthony Rapp -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010
Southall wrote
Christodoulides wrote
There's other music than leitmotif music.
Sure, and there's other cars than Ferraris and other categories of people to have sex with than living females but that doesn't mean they're as good.
But let's make one thing clear before anyone else puts words into my mouth that I didn't say. Few of my absolute, all-time-favourite film scores are leitmotivic actually. Some of the most brilliant music - and some of the most brilliant film music - doesn't have a theme in sight. All I'm saying is that for THIS film, it could have been scored so much better than it was. Don't turn that into me saying that all film music needs to be 100-piece orchestras and sound like Star Wars because I am not saying that.
Jeez but you make perfect sense, at least to me, I think some are getting a bit touchy and defensive.On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010
In the 1960's classic camp series? ABSOLUTELY!!
On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorfranz_conrad
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010
Christodoulides wrote
Exactly my point; the THEMES ARE THERE. Just because they're not Wagnerian and 8-bar long, that doesn't mean they're not worthy.
Yeah, but I wouldn't say the Nolan BATMANs would be my first example of how to subtly use the leitmotif method.A butterfly thinks therefore I am -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010
Timmer wrote
In the 1960's classic camp series? ABSOLUTELY!!
Yeah, makes perfect sense. He's a douche dressed in a bat's costume after all.
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorfommes
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010 edited
All I'm saying is that it's ridiculous to say that you can't have a melodic theme in The Dark Knight because it would make it seem silly. If the fact that a guy is fighting crime while dressed as a bat doesn't make it seem silly then having a theme that people might remember afterwards is not going to.
Espécially since it's a sequel. Buying into the Batman Begins logic implies a theme in the next film.
As a result: anybody else expected Batman to drop in at any time in Inception? -
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010
Timmer wrote
Southall wrote
Christodoulides wrote
There's other music than leitmotif music.
Sure, and there's other cars than Ferraris and other categories of people to have sex with than living females but that doesn't mean they're as good.
But let's make one thing clear before anyone else puts words into my mouth that I didn't say. Few of my absolute, all-time-favourite film scores are leitmotivic actually. Some of the most brilliant music - and some of the most brilliant film music - doesn't have a theme in sight. All I'm saying is that for THIS film, it could have been scored so much better than it was. Don't turn that into me saying that all film music needs to be 100-piece orchestras and sound like Star Wars because I am not saying that.
Jeez but you make perfect sense, at least to me, I think some are getting a bit touchy and defensive.
I'm with the rest of the level-headed people here.
I completely agree with James: divorced from the artistic decision to have a soundscape rather than a melodious score (whether one enjoys that or not), the single argument that "a theme would have made a certain aspect of the film silly", is about as nonsensical as saying the use of the colour yellow throughout the film would have made it happy.
It shows a blatant incomprehension of music and a very clear insight in -and there's that old chestnut again- personall preference. Now if this is Nolan's preference, fine.
But to dismiss another very valid take is -not unlike Rosenthal's comment to Poledouris' Robocop theme- a clear indicatrion of tunnel vision.
Film music is there to punctuate or underscore a certain emotional dimension of a visual medium.
That's what it does.
If it fullfils that function by melodious, recognisable leitmotivs, then it's working.
If it gets to that end by dronig metallic noises, it does as well.
Any other consideration is up to anyone's personal preference.
As for myself, I enjoy leitmotifs and themes, if only because they make a so much better listening experience to me away from the film. So I really would have liked that in the new Batman franchise.
As it is, I'll have to make do with Elfman's thunderous gothbast to fill that particular need.'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010
kLove Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010
Good boy.
Now STAY.'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010 edited
Rosenman, Martijn, not Rosenthal
and I know you meant Rosenman.On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010
F*CK ME. I ALWAYS do that.
'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorLSH
- CommentTimeJul 27th 2010
Stumbled upon this article. -
- CommentAuthorScribe
- CommentTimeJul 27th 2010
Hmm.I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeJul 27th 2010 edited
Are they sure it's JNH and not some stupid piece of music inserted by the producers? -
- CommentAuthorlp
- CommentTimeJul 27th 2010
Does James ever do any interviews? I would love to hear what he thinks about his current output, working relationships, etc. -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 28th 2010
Anthony wrote
Are they sure it's JNH and not some stupid piece of music inserted by the producers?
Well if it's on the CD and credited to JNH, then it must be his, right?Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorfranz_conrad
- CommentTimeJul 28th 2010
Christodoulides wrote
Anthony wrote
Are they sure it's JNH and not some stupid piece of music inserted by the producers?
Well if it's on the CD and credited to JNH, then it must be his, right?
You raise - inadvertently - an interesting issue about James Newton Howard....A butterfly thinks therefore I am -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeJul 28th 2010
It's not on the CD though, is it? -
- CommentAuthorjustin boggan
- CommentTimeJul 28th 2010
Christodoulides wrote
Anthony wrote
Are they sure it's JNH and not some stupid piece of music inserted by the producers?
Well if it's on the CD and credited to JNH, then it must be his, right?
I can think of a Revell score CD where he composed NONE of the score (not even a "theme"), but receives sole credit. I can think of a Christopher young score CD where two or three cues are not composed by him, but the person in question receives to credit. Off the top of me head. could probably name more with further reflection.
(declining comment on the name of the films...)The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.