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    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2013
    Captain Future wrote
    I love Bremners take on "Lawrence of Arabia".


    It IS superb!
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2013
    Timmer wrote
    NP : BOY ON A DOLPHIN - Hugo Friedhofer



    Gorgeously exotic score full of Friedhofer's genius for orchestration, I love it.


    I'm really enjoying playing Friedhofer today, next up is SEVEN CITIES OF GOLD.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  1. Over the years I have come to genreally prefer re-recordings when it comes to Golden Age scores.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
  2. Alfred Newman - The Greatest Story Ever Told

    Today, only the first CD, to remind myself the sound of this score. I reviewed the whole 3 CDs years ago, my first foray into Golden Age scoring. It's a masterpiece. I do intend to write a big article, in an academic fashion, about the changes in religious film scoring, concentrating on epic/"period" films from Rozsa's Quo Vadis to Debney's The Passion of the Christ. The diverse range of composers, while still a selection, will feature Miklos Rozsa, Thomas Newman, Elmer Bernstein, Peter Gabriel (I think), Hans Zimmer (The Prince of Egypt, actually featuring a minor Bernstein theme in the score, is of course an animated version of The Ten Commandments, Jeffrey Katzenberg's dream project) and John Debney. Most of the featured scores will be from the Golden Age, three of Rozsa's (Quo Vadis, Ben Hur, King of Kings), two of Newman's (The Robe and the one I'm listening to) and Bernstein (chronologically it is a Golden Age score; also paradigmatically).

    I am keeping with my Golden Age mood, which has really never been so strong. I actually find it interesting that I can enjoy Rozsa, Newman as much as I can enjoy Inception or, even, THe Dark Knight Rises or Bourne Ultimatum. In fact, I started to feel very odd about it and gave it some thought, literally asking my film score listening friends if I'm mentally OK, but the problem seems to lie somewhere else.

    Much has been said about the modern listener generation ignorance of the classic film scores from Korngold, Rozsa, Newman and such. The fact that many Youtube generation listeners started ridiculing the John Williams iconic theme as soon as they heard a single cue from Zimmer's Man of Steel is a sad result of ignorance. Musical tastes is something that shouldn't be discussed in a derogatory fashion, unless jocular. But I think, and many people on this forum have that approach, but sadly, not enough reviewers are as open as Southall (compare Filmtracks' and his Inception reviews) for new approaches and it is this (my own philosophy as well):

    No way of film scoring, or if we prefer, scoring paradigm is wrong. There are bad scores. Singular bad scores.

    So. I vented it out. I feel better.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2013 edited
    Captain Future wrote
    Over the years I have come to genreally prefer re-recordings when it comes to Golden Age scores.


    And I agree with you, in many cases I have original and rerecording and 9 times out of 10 I'll reach for the rerecording. Sometimes it's because it's an easier digestion, THE BIG COUNTRY comes to mind here, I love the full score but it can be a bit much to take compared to the wonderful rerecording, something like John Barry's THE LAST VALLEY ( just an example, I know it's not Golden Age ), on the other hand, I prefer the rerecording because it has so many great cues left off of the original release.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2013 edited
    THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD is a gorgeous score all around. I prefer the single-disc album program, though (as expected). The rendition of the Hallelujah chorus is a bit on the skimpy side, though (compared to other classical recordings).
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2013
    Thor wrote
    THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD is a gorgeous score all around. I prefer the single-disc album program, though (as expected). The rendition of the Hallelujah chorus is a bit on the skimpy side, though (compared to other classical recordings).


    I much prefer discs 2 & 3 and honestly doubt I'll bother with the first disc again!?

    p.s. It was a joy to finally bin my CDR. beer
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  3. PawelStroinski wrote
    No way of film scoring, or if we prefer, scoring paradigm is wrong. There are bad scores. Singular bad scores.

    I'm not sure I entirely agree with you. Or rather, while I agree that there is no inherently wrong way to score a film, there are certain ways that I personally don't think are effective, or that simply don't produce music that I enjoy listening to. For example, narrative flow is something I value above almost all else in a film score; that doesn't necessarily mean themes, but I have to feel as though the music I'm listening is going somewhere, progressing from a to b, both at the level of a single cue and throughout the score as a whole. That's the main reason why I think the Cliff Martinez/Trent Reznor school of thought, i.e. a more or less static mood throughout the entire movie, doesn't make for good or effective film music, or for albums that I enjoy. That's part of the reason why I've not liked a lot of recent Hans Zimmer scores, because they feel like mood music that never really develops all that much (with exceptions in individual cues), rather than music actually composed to picture. That's why I really don't like the scores to the last two Terence Malick movies and I have reservations about the two that came before (sorry, Pawel tongue ).

    So I guess what I'm trying to say is, no way of film scoring is inherently wrong but that doesn't mean we can't find certain ways more "right" than others.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2013
    Such things can only be judged on a case-by-case basis -- i.e. how does the music answer to what the filmmaker wants to convey in that particular film?
    I am extremely serious.
  4. I agree with you, Thor. Let's look at Vangelis' "Blade Runner" for example. It doesn't do much in terms of narrative flow and there is no thematic devolpment whatsoever. Rather the cues answer to the mood of the respective scene. Still it is one of the most significant scores ever.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2013 edited
    Captain Future wrote
    I agree with you, Thor. Let's look at Vangelis' "Blade Runner" for example. It doesn't do much in terms of narrative flow and there is no thematic devolpment whatsoever. Rather the cues answer to the mood of the respective scene. Still it is one of the most significant scores ever.


    Absolutely. The score -- as the film -- is more moment/tableaux-type filmmaking, and it's perfect that way. Not all films and film scores need to be primarily storytellers although that's the big Hollywood mantra.
    I am extremely serious.
  5. I think a very serious discussion regarding the state of modern film music would be very much in place. Why and what's right and wrong, without much judgment in terms of the composers themselves. The problem is that it polarizes the fan so much that I am worried it would resort to fights rather than a serious argumented discussion. Not because there are inherently bad people, but because we are so deeply connected to our favourite works and in these terms also certain scoring paradigms.

    The concept of paradigm of scoring is something that I took from Thor's discussions, though I would like to listen to an expansion of the term. I assume that the term "paradigm" is used in a Kuhnian sense (T. S. Kuhn was a philosopher of science, who analyzed history of scientific discovery through the concept of "scientific revolution", big paradigmatic changes going in a specific way, with the new paradigm being first rejected, then confirmed, research being done to confirm it and criticism and new paradigms coming directly from the research and experiments done to prove the most recent paradigm). The term very much fits to the way I see the development of film music, though much has to be said about the revolutions which led to popularity of certain scoring methods.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2013
    Timmer wrote
    Timmer wrote
    NP : BOY ON A DOLPHIN - Hugo Friedhofer



    Gorgeously exotic score full of Friedhofer's genius for orchestration, I love it.


    I'm really enjoying playing Friedhofer today, next up is SEVEN CITIES OF GOLD.


    I can't stop playing good stuff.

    I didn't play 'SEVEN CITIES', that can wait for another day.

    NP : JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH - Bernard Herrmann



    This is how it's done Andrew tongue
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2013 edited
    NP : THE EGYPTIAN - Bernard Herrmann & Alfred Newman



    Coolio!

    This is the Morgan/Stromberg recording.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  6. PawelStroinski wrote
    I think a very serious discussion regarding the state of modern film music would be very much in place. Why and what's right and wrong, without much judgment in terms of the composers themselves. The problem is that it polarizes the fan so much that I am worried it would resort to fights rather than a serious argumented discussion. Not because there are inherently bad people, but because we are so deeply connected to our favourite works and in these terms also certain scoring paradigms.

    The concept of paradigm of scoring is something that I took from Thor's discussions, though I would like to listen to an expansion of the term. I assume that the term "paradigm" is used in a Kuhnian sense (T. S. Kuhn was a philosopher of science, who analyzed history of scientific discovery through the concept of "scientific revolution", big paradigmatic changes going in a specific way, with the new paradigm being first rejected, then confirmed, research being done to confirm it and criticism and new paradigms coming directly from the research and experiments done to prove the most recent paradigm). The term very much fits to the way I see the development of film music, though much has to be said about the revolutions which led to popularity of certain scoring methods.


    I prefer to use the term "paradigm" in the sense of Fritjof Capra and say that we are now entering the Age of Aquarius. cool

    Really, Pawel, I fear it's all much more trivial than anything that would require good old T.S. Kuhn. Zimmer has brought pop music to the films of Hollywood again. Now pop music is far more pupular then symphonic music. There is nothing symphonic about Zimmer, nerver was, never will be. He keeps it simple and he draws those who never had any exposure to classical music. Zimmer is feeding the masses. Really, Pawel, I see you as the exeption from the rule here.
    Also non-thematic composing isn't news for Hollywood. Not all the Golden Agers applied Wagnarian techniques for example. So, no revolution, no change of paradigm. Fashion would be the more adequate word.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
  7. But what we are doing is just resorting it to one composer, completely ignoring the fact that there are guys that aren't at all connected to Hans Zimmer and they have been composing a bit different stuff even some time before his career started, though admittedly either their careers are basically finished (Graeme Revell) or never reached the kind of popularity, or even, started only recently (what has Clint Mansell to do with Zimmer, Cliff Martinez, and so on).

    That said, the moment you said nothing symphonic makes me ask about a score like The Thin Red Line or Spanglish.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  8. Playing today:

    Aliens: Colonial Marines - Kevin Riepl
    See "Upcoming CDs" for further information.

    The Best Years of our Lives - Hugo Friedhofer
    The London Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Franco Collura. Recording from 1978, this CD: Membran, 2004. I read a statement that claims this to be a boot. I don't know. There is a x-label edition out there that seems to feature the same recording. Or maybe that's the original one. It's all a bit confusing.

    On the Waterfront - His Magnificence Leonard Bernstein
    Concert Suite. Bernstein conducting the Columbia Symphony Orchestra in 1959. (Columbia Records / Sony)

    MGV: Musique à Grande Vitesse - Michael Nyman (argo, 1994)
    No film music. What the heck. tongue

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2013 edited
    MGV = punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2013
    NP: ON THE BEACH (Christopher Gordon)

    Great album that spans many different moods throughout -- always with top-class orchestral writing.
    I am extremely serious.
  9. Timmer wrote
    MGV = punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk punk


    cheesy
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2013 edited
    NP : ARTHUR OF THE BRITONS - Paul Lewis & Elmer Bernstein



    I love the liner notes to this release, Paul Lewis went through quite an epic task to get this written and recorded in a small allotted time frame, it also confirmed what I'd thought all along that most of the cues were written as Library cues to be used in numerous episodes...battles on foot, on horseback, chases, fade-ups on sunny mornings, in drizzle, driving rain, fog etc plus mysterious underscore for sequences with tension, burning homesteads, happy children etc etc

    Also of interest is that when Lewis was given Elmer Bernstein's theme for recording he saw that Elmer's notes ( the original music sheet is replicated in the notes ) stated it included an electric bass, Lewis decided he was having none of that in 5th Century Britain and dumped it.

    Full of rich melodies and orchestral goodness that I note Lewis orchestrated himself, he believes orchestrating is an integral part of the composing creative process and it shows, this is music that lives and breathes and this TV score from 1972 is a real breath of fresh air.

    Brilliant!
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2013
    NP: Legend of the Fall - James Horner

    Is this the most romantic Horner score? "The Ludlows" is the best Horner track for me. The main theme is the ultimate in sweeping melody that make you swoon and sway as you watch Brad Pitt's hopeless romance with Julia Ormond unfold against the grand landscape.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2013
    lp wrote
    NP: Legend of the Fall - James Horner

    Is this the most romantic Horner score?


    Yes.
  10. Steven wrote
    lp wrote
    NP: Legend of the Fall - James Horner

    Is this the most romantic Horner score?


    Yes.


    Saccharine overdose.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2013
    Steven wrote
    lp wrote
    NP: Legend of the Fall - James Horner

    Is this the most romantic Horner score?


    Yes.


    It's a good score but it doesn't even break into my top 10 Horner's. The romantic parts of BRAVEHEART touch me far more than 'LEGENDS'.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2013
    Captain Future wrote
    Steven wrote
    lp wrote
    NP: Legend of the Fall - James Horner

    Is this the most romantic Horner score?


    Yes.


    Saccharine overdose.


    It's not a bad thing since there aren't that many sugary treats available.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2013
    Timmer wrote
    Steven wrote
    lp wrote
    NP: Legend of the Fall - James Horner

    Is this the most romantic Horner score?


    Yes.


    It's a good score but it doesn't even break into my top 10 Horner's. The romantic parts of BRAVEHEART touch me far more than 'LEGENDS'.


    Yes.
    •  
      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2013
    Timmer wrote
    Steven wrote
    lp wrote
    NP: Legend of the Fall - James Horner

    Is this the most romantic Horner score?


    Yes.


    It's a good score but it doesn't even break into my top 10 Horner's. The romantic parts of BRAVEHEART touch me far more than 'LEGENDS'.


    I'll check out Braveheart. I hope the bagpipes won't be too overbearing.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2013 edited
    lp wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Steven wrote
    lp wrote
    NP: Legend of the Fall - James Horner

    Is this the most romantic Horner score?


    Yes.


    It's a good score but it doesn't even break into my top 10 Horner's. The romantic parts of BRAVEHEART touch me far more than 'LEGENDS'.


    I'll check out Braveheart. I hope the bagpipes won't be too overbearing.


    You've never heard BRAVEHEART? No worries, no bagpipes but there are Uillean pipes wink



    By the way, here's something about the film..... biggrin

    Elizabeth Ewan describes Braveheart as a film which "almost totally sacrifices historical accuracy for epic adventure".[25] The "brave heart" refers in Scottish history to that of Robert the Bruce, and an attribution by William Edmondstoune Aytoun, in his poem Heart of Bruce, to Sir James the Good: "Pass thee first, thou dauntless heart, As thou wert wont of yore!", prior to Douglas's demise at the Battle of Teba in Andalusia.[26]

    Sharon Krossa notes that the film contains numerous historical errors, beginning with the wearing of belted plaid by Wallace and his men. In that period "no Scots ... wore belted plaids (let alone kilts of any kind)."[27] Moreover, when Highlanders finally did begin wearing the belted plaid, it was not "in the rather bizarre style depicted in the film."[27] She compares the inaccuracy to "a film about Colonial America showing the colonial men wearing 20th century business suits, but with the jackets worn back-to-front instead of the right way around."[27] "The events aren't accurate, the dates aren't accurate, the characters aren't accurate, the names aren't accurate, the clothes aren't accurate—in short, just about nothing is accurate."[28] The belted plaid (feileadh mór) léine was not introduced until the 16th century.[29] Peter Traquair has referred to Wallace's "farcical representation as a wild and hairy highlander painted with woad (1,000 years too late) running amok in a tartan kilt (500 years too early)." [30]

    In 2009, the film was second on a list of "most historically inaccurate movies" in The Times.[31] In the 2007 humorous non-fictional historiography An Utterly Impartial History of Britain, author John O'Farrell notes that Braveheart could not have been more historically inaccurate, even if a "Plasticine dog" had been inserted in the film and the title changed to William Wallace and Gromit.[32]

    Randall Wallace is very vocal about defending his script from historians who have dismissed the film as a Hollywood perversion of actual events.[citation needed] In the DVD audio commentary of Braveheart, Mel Gibson acknowledges many of the historical inaccuracies[citation needed] but defends his choices as director, noting that the way events were portrayed in the film was much more "cinematically compelling" than the historical fact or conventional mythos.




    Never let history stand in the way of a good movie eh? biggrin wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2013
    Timmer wrote
    lp wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Steven wrote
    lp wrote
    NP: Legend of the Fall - James Horner

    Is this the most romantic Horner score?


    Yes.


    It's a good score but it doesn't even break into my top 10 Horner's. The romantic parts of BRAVEHEART touch me far more than 'LEGENDS'.


    I'll check out Braveheart. I hope the bagpipes won't be too overbearing.


    You've never heard BRAVEHEART? No worries, no bagpipes but there are Uillean pipes wink



    By the way, here's something about the film..... biggrin

    Elizabeth Ewan describes Braveheart as a film which "almost totally sacrifices historical accuracy for epic adventure".[25] The "brave heart" refers in Scottish history to that of Robert the Bruce, and an attribution by William Edmondstoune Aytoun, in his poem Heart of Bruce, to Sir James the Good: "Pass thee first, thou dauntless heart, As thou wert wont of yore!", prior to Douglas's demise at the Battle of Teba in Andalusia.[26]

    Sharon Krossa notes that the film contains numerous historical errors, beginning with the wearing of belted plaid by Wallace and his men. In that period "no Scots ... wore belted plaids (let alone kilts of any kind)."[27] Moreover, when Highlanders finally did begin wearing the belted plaid, it was not "in the rather bizarre style depicted in the film."[27] She compares the inaccuracy to "a film about Colonial America showing the colonial men wearing 20th century business suits, but with the jackets worn back-to-front instead of the right way around."[27] "The events aren't accurate, the dates aren't accurate, the characters aren't accurate, the names aren't accurate, the clothes aren't accurate—in short, just about nothing is accurate."[28] The belted plaid (feileadh mór) léine was not introduced until the 16th century.[29] Peter Traquair has referred to Wallace's "farcical representation as a wild and hairy highlander painted with woad (1,000 years too late) running amok in a tartan kilt (500 years too early)." [30]

    In 2009, the film was second on a list of "most historically inaccurate movies" in The Times.[31] In the 2007 humorous non-fictional historiography An Utterly Impartial History of Britain, author John O'Farrell notes that Braveheart could not have been more historically inaccurate, even if a "Plasticine dog" had been inserted in the film and the title changed to William Wallace and Gromit.[32]

    Randall Wallace is very vocal about defending his script from historians who have dismissed the film as a Hollywood perversion of actual events.[citation needed] In the DVD audio commentary of Braveheart, Mel Gibson acknowledges many of the historical inaccuracies[citation needed] but defends his choices as director, noting that the way events were portrayed in the film was much more "cinematically compelling" than the historical fact or conventional mythos.




    Never let history stand in the way of a good movie eh? biggrin wink


    In the end, it has to entertain. I liked the movie. It was epic and dramatic in the ways it had to be. I didn't pay much attention to the music though. Didn't care very much for Horner until Legends of the Fall, to be honest.